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	<title>Comments on: Why Calling Out Bad History Matters</title>
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		<title>By: Morgana Krinsley</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-7248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morgana Krinsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-7248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Witch comes from &quot;wicce&quot; (pronounced &#039;weeTCHeh&#039;), &quot;wicca&quot; (weeTCHah) meaning male witch, both Anglo-Saxon, according to the OED. The pronunciation is from my cursory study of that language. As far as I have been able to find, Gardener came across &quot;wicca&quot; in the OED some time in the 1960s, because that was when he started to use it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Witch comes from &#8220;wicce&#8221; (pronounced &#8216;weeTCHeh&#8217;), &#8220;wicca&#8221; (weeTCHah) meaning male witch, both Anglo-Saxon, according to the OED. The pronunciation is from my cursory study of that language. As far as I have been able to find, Gardener came across &#8220;wicca&#8221; in the OED some time in the 1960s, because that was when he started to use it.</p>
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		<title>By: Morgana Krinsley</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-7247</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morgana Krinsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-7247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ronald Hutton has his problems, too. See &quot;Trials of the Moon: Reopening the Case for Historical Witchcraft. A critique of Ronald Hutton&#039;s The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft&quot;, by Ben Whitmore]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronald Hutton has his problems, too. See &#8220;Trials of the Moon: Reopening the Case for Historical Witchcraft. A critique of Ronald Hutton&#8217;s The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft&#8221;, by Ben Whitmore</p>
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		<title>By: Zephyrine</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-6581</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zephyrine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2016 02:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-6581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this Wiccan fundamentalist is extremely similar to Christian fundamentalism: believing in the myths of the religion despite tremendous historical and scientific evidence to the contrary.

There are a lot of Christian historical myths, not just within the Bible, but since the death of Christ, like how Christians were viciously persecuted by the Roman Empire, ignoring how other groups including the Cult of Cybele (or any group that ran afoul of the Romans) were also persecuted. The Crusades, the conversion of Constantine: these are all Christian myths. Stories that were told to help prop up the religion, but that aren&#039;t really what they seem.

Pagans have their own laundry list of myths: how Christians stole everything from them, matriarchal prehistory, the genocide of the Burning Times, the 8 sabbats (the Celts only celebrated 4). I even had a Pagan friend who said that Christians invented the concept of black magic, ignoring how that concept exists in cultures throughout the world, and existed in pre-Christian times.

The thing is that there is a lot of very, very bad history being sold by Pagan authors. Ronald Hutton is an obvious exception. Christianity has had the advantage of having good historians who have debunked its bad history.

Wicca should be a strong enough tradition that it can stand apart from its bad history. When I see extremely well educated Pagans spouting unhistorical nonsense, it makes me despair of the future on the religion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this Wiccan fundamentalist is extremely similar to Christian fundamentalism: believing in the myths of the religion despite tremendous historical and scientific evidence to the contrary.</p>
<p>There are a lot of Christian historical myths, not just within the Bible, but since the death of Christ, like how Christians were viciously persecuted by the Roman Empire, ignoring how other groups including the Cult of Cybele (or any group that ran afoul of the Romans) were also persecuted. The Crusades, the conversion of Constantine: these are all Christian myths. Stories that were told to help prop up the religion, but that aren&#8217;t really what they seem.</p>
<p>Pagans have their own laundry list of myths: how Christians stole everything from them, matriarchal prehistory, the genocide of the Burning Times, the 8 sabbats (the Celts only celebrated 4). I even had a Pagan friend who said that Christians invented the concept of black magic, ignoring how that concept exists in cultures throughout the world, and existed in pre-Christian times.</p>
<p>The thing is that there is a lot of very, very bad history being sold by Pagan authors. Ronald Hutton is an obvious exception. Christianity has had the advantage of having good historians who have debunked its bad history.</p>
<p>Wicca should be a strong enough tradition that it can stand apart from its bad history. When I see extremely well educated Pagans spouting unhistorical nonsense, it makes me despair of the future on the religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeth</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-6187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2015 07:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-6187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is very good for beginners, I mean your article. A lot of people in the pagan community are taught not to critically think. But it&#039;s important and something college requires when you start going there. (When you do papers and stuff.) I don&#039;t think disagreeing with someone is necessarily attacking them. Something many pagans haven&#039;t learned.

Oh, and Zeitgeist really didn&#039;t help on the Horus, Jesus, Mithas thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very good for beginners, I mean your article. A lot of people in the pagan community are taught not to critically think. But it&#8217;s important and something college requires when you start going there. (When you do papers and stuff.) I don&#8217;t think disagreeing with someone is necessarily attacking them. Something many pagans haven&#8217;t learned.</p>
<p>Oh, and Zeitgeist really didn&#8217;t help on the Horus, Jesus, Mithas thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Avery</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-1732</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Avery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-1732</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know that this is an old post but I have access to the OED via school so here&#039;s the actual etymology - &quot;Old English: wiccecræft , &lt; wicca, wicce witch n.1, witch n.2 + cræft craft n.&quot; &quot;Witch&quot; and &quot;Craft&quot; are both firmly rooted in the Germanic branch of IE (meaning they show up all over other Germanic languages in various forms), not the Celtic branch, thank you very much... I hate it when people appropriate or down right lie about the Celts and their culture to make their own religion seem more mystical.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that this is an old post but I have access to the OED via school so here&#8217;s the actual etymology &#8211; &#8220;Old English: wiccecræft , &lt; wicca, wicce witch n.1, witch n.2 + cræft craft n.&quot; &quot;Witch&quot; and &quot;Craft&quot; are both firmly rooted in the Germanic branch of IE (meaning they show up all over other Germanic languages in various forms), not the Celtic branch, thank you very much&#8230; I hate it when people appropriate or down right lie about the Celts and their culture to make their own religion seem more mystical.</p>
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		<title>By: Thexalon</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-1581</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thexalon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2014 03:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-1581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One more potential issue here: How many sources are backing up the claim, and what sort of quality are they?

For example, I once was looking into a claim that part of the Orpheus myth was him receiving a golden lyre on Mt Parnassus. That certainly seemed plausible, until I noticed that every single website that had the identical sentence, and all sourced exactly the same modern mythology guide which itself had no sourcing at all.

I did hunt for any ancient sources that would back up the claim, but came up empty. While I don&#039;t denounce anyone who makes it, I&#039;m certainly not going to repeat it as proven truth.

And in general, I evaluate as extremely dubious any derogatory claims about other religions. Listen to the way Christians and atheists talk about Islam, for example, and compare that with how Muslims talk about Islam.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more potential issue here: How many sources are backing up the claim, and what sort of quality are they?</p>
<p>For example, I once was looking into a claim that part of the Orpheus myth was him receiving a golden lyre on Mt Parnassus. That certainly seemed plausible, until I noticed that every single website that had the identical sentence, and all sourced exactly the same modern mythology guide which itself had no sourcing at all.</p>
<p>I did hunt for any ancient sources that would back up the claim, but came up empty. While I don&#8217;t denounce anyone who makes it, I&#8217;m certainly not going to repeat it as proven truth.</p>
<p>And in general, I evaluate as extremely dubious any derogatory claims about other religions. Listen to the way Christians and atheists talk about Islam, for example, and compare that with how Muslims talk about Islam.</p>
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		<title>By: Kalanagini</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-1535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kalanagini]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-1535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually the X-tians didn&#039;t &quot;steal&quot; Yule or any other pagan holiday so much as they &#039;co-opted&#039; them for their own purposes. Much easier to &quot;co-opt&quot; than to start a whole new tradition. F&#039;r instance, every bit of hard data available indicates that Jesus was actually born in October (census and taxation took place in October, after the harvest was in), but the Church probably didn&#039;t want their Deity associated with mere &#039;harvest&#039; rites and death and dying of the God ; they wanted  to connect him with the SUN, hence they chose the Sun-rebirth festival as the festival associated with their Deity. What matter that the historical Jesus&#039;s birthday was actually a couple of months earlier? If we are going to talk &quot;bad history&quot; , I assure you: X-tianity is RIFE with &quot;bad history&quot;- and not by &#039;accident&quot; either!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the X-tians didn&#8217;t &#8220;steal&#8221; Yule or any other pagan holiday so much as they &#8216;co-opted&#8217; them for their own purposes. Much easier to &#8220;co-opt&#8221; than to start a whole new tradition. F&#8217;r instance, every bit of hard data available indicates that Jesus was actually born in October (census and taxation took place in October, after the harvest was in), but the Church probably didn&#8217;t want their Deity associated with mere &#8216;harvest&#8217; rites and death and dying of the God ; they wanted  to connect him with the SUN, hence they chose the Sun-rebirth festival as the festival associated with their Deity. What matter that the historical Jesus&#8217;s birthday was actually a couple of months earlier? If we are going to talk &#8220;bad history&#8221; , I assure you: X-tianity is RIFE with &#8220;bad history&#8221;- and not by &#8216;accident&#8221; either!</p>
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		<title>By: Morrigane Feu</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-1534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morrigane Feu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-1534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi! I would like permission to translate this article in French and post it on the FB page I administer. I will give all due credits and link back here. 
Thank you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! I would like permission to translate this article in French and post it on the FB page I administer. I will give all due credits and link back here.<br />
Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Lannah</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-630</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lannah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Totally agree. My cousin is a bit like that, saying Christians stole this and that. Me, I have a sort of careless attitude (in the sense that I&#039;m sort of impartial) because I&#039;m not just Wiccan, but Catholic. I can&#039;t see myself give us all those Catholic beliefs and hating Christians for no reason just because it&#039;s what most Wiccans do (mind you, I haven&#039;t seen Wiccans bashing Christians on websites - not that I went looking for it, so I could be wrong).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree. My cousin is a bit like that, saying Christians stole this and that. Me, I have a sort of careless attitude (in the sense that I&#8217;m sort of impartial) because I&#8217;m not just Wiccan, but Catholic. I can&#8217;t see myself give us all those Catholic beliefs and hating Christians for no reason just because it&#8217;s what most Wiccans do (mind you, I haven&#8217;t seen Wiccans bashing Christians on websites &#8211; not that I went looking for it, so I could be wrong).</p>
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		<title>By: Talisman Skulls</title>
		<link>http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/why-calling-out-bad-history-matters/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Talisman Skulls]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wicca.cnbeyer.com/?p=116#comment-337</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I understand your points but your talking about people who really Do not know what they are speaking of and even less educated in Etymology, Philosophy, Theology, etc. that would be necessary to have any consistence and reliable means by which to respond. As far as the &quot;Hostilities&quot; between so called Pagans and Christians&quot; you have the authors of all those poorly researched garbage books from distributors like llewellyn publications, and extremist feminist misandrist authors  that only a 10th of what they have written is even on subject and the rest is just hate men this, male centric religion that, blah blah blah. Second on the reverse side of this, much of the concepts of Wicca and Paganism is drawn directly from Christian sources, like St. Bebe for the whole Eostre claim. He is the only source of that drivel.  We all with the academic background an many many years of study know far too many base their concepts on &quot;one source&quot; and run with it. 

Example? Warlock. Doreen Valiente is the only source of those claims and frankly has NO support whatsoever to justify anything that her work was added to the OED, and regurgitated through Arcadia press without confirmation to the accuracy or inaccuracy of any of it. And frankly the EOD etymology from which most others simply copy and past is awful. Look up the word Law for example. it gives it as Laga, and Lagu and Old Swedish Loga. That&#039;s factual. its confirmed by the fact that Utlog (oot lawg) means Out Law. But then type Loga specifically you get redirected to the false claim from the Valiente claim. Problem? Obviously.   

But then break down Wor-Loga and its alternatives Vorlaga, Verloga, and Orloga meaning both Our Laws and Primal Laws from the same sources as German, Swedish, etc. Warlock itself is a composite also of Ward +Lock before that modern form and likewise has variations, Wardlok meaning everything from Guardian Watcher, to Protector of Bonds, to Protection Singer, to Keeper of Knowledge, and Guardian of Luck depending on the Language. NONE have negative associations. But because of lousy books, garbage authors and the whole &quot;They stole our Holidays&quot; crap, that&#039;s the source of the problem especially when pitched to largely uninformed and undereducated and ill equipped teens, mostly young girls, especially in the early 90&#039;s with the whole re-surge of NEW AGE movements that root back in the 20&#039;s and 30&#039;s.    

As far as the so called &quot;Pagan Trinity&quot;  which I really do not care how you measure it since the &quot;Cultures&quot; in question never called Themselves Pagans which any real researcher knows factually, is in fact connected with the Pythagorean concept of the Aion which creates of itself a dual incarnation of Kronus the Father, Rhea the Mother and both as the Aion&#039;s right and left hands so to speak come together to produce the Iesous = Zeus that then creates the &quot;World&quot; and subsequently the Hera of that system so that with union of the third person of the Aion mates with the creation so it can incarnate as the World Soul moving then into a more Pantheistic context.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your points but your talking about people who really Do not know what they are speaking of and even less educated in Etymology, Philosophy, Theology, etc. that would be necessary to have any consistence and reliable means by which to respond. As far as the &#8220;Hostilities&#8221; between so called Pagans and Christians&#8221; you have the authors of all those poorly researched garbage books from distributors like llewellyn publications, and extremist feminist misandrist authors  that only a 10th of what they have written is even on subject and the rest is just hate men this, male centric religion that, blah blah blah. Second on the reverse side of this, much of the concepts of Wicca and Paganism is drawn directly from Christian sources, like St. Bebe for the whole Eostre claim. He is the only source of that drivel.  We all with the academic background an many many years of study know far too many base their concepts on &#8220;one source&#8221; and run with it. </p>
<p>Example? Warlock. Doreen Valiente is the only source of those claims and frankly has NO support whatsoever to justify anything that her work was added to the OED, and regurgitated through Arcadia press without confirmation to the accuracy or inaccuracy of any of it. And frankly the EOD etymology from which most others simply copy and past is awful. Look up the word Law for example. it gives it as Laga, and Lagu and Old Swedish Loga. That&#8217;s factual. its confirmed by the fact that Utlog (oot lawg) means Out Law. But then type Loga specifically you get redirected to the false claim from the Valiente claim. Problem? Obviously.   </p>
<p>But then break down Wor-Loga and its alternatives Vorlaga, Verloga, and Orloga meaning both Our Laws and Primal Laws from the same sources as German, Swedish, etc. Warlock itself is a composite also of Ward +Lock before that modern form and likewise has variations, Wardlok meaning everything from Guardian Watcher, to Protector of Bonds, to Protection Singer, to Keeper of Knowledge, and Guardian of Luck depending on the Language. NONE have negative associations. But because of lousy books, garbage authors and the whole &#8220;They stole our Holidays&#8221; crap, that&#8217;s the source of the problem especially when pitched to largely uninformed and undereducated and ill equipped teens, mostly young girls, especially in the early 90&#8217;s with the whole re-surge of NEW AGE movements that root back in the 20&#8217;s and 30&#8217;s.    </p>
<p>As far as the so called &#8220;Pagan Trinity&#8221;  which I really do not care how you measure it since the &#8220;Cultures&#8221; in question never called Themselves Pagans which any real researcher knows factually, is in fact connected with the Pythagorean concept of the Aion which creates of itself a dual incarnation of Kronus the Father, Rhea the Mother and both as the Aion&#8217;s right and left hands so to speak come together to produce the Iesous = Zeus that then creates the &#8220;World&#8221; and subsequently the Hera of that system so that with union of the third person of the Aion mates with the creation so it can incarnate as the World Soul moving then into a more Pantheistic context.</p>
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